"Piano Man" Billy Joel hates to write songs, never thought he could land a beauty like Christie Brinkley - and tried to kill himself in a Laundromat in a place called Hicksville.

Those are the revelations of his ex-manager and longtime friend, painter Ruby Mazur, in a blockbuster exclusive Enquirer interview.

"He was 17 when I first met him," recalled Mazur, who created the memorable mouth-and-tongue logo for the Rolling Stones."

"He was this fat kid with stubby fingers and frizzy hair who couldn't get a girl. He stood in for the piano player of a band called The Hassles when their regular player OD'd."

"He started playing regularly with The Hassles and began singing too. It was in my dad's disco in Plainview, Long Island, and my brother and I started managing him."

"We became best friends. We were so close he even moved in with our family in Massapequa. He had his own room."

"One night in 1969, when he was 21, he got dropped by his girlfriend and tried to kill himself. He did it in a Laundromat in - would you believe - Hicksville, Long Island."

"He took a huge mess of pills, downers and everything - and threw up all over the dryers!"

"A bunch of us took him to the hospital. I brought him home at 3am."

"At that point I gave up managing him but we stayed close. My brother Irwin sat him down and read him the riot act. Billy closed himself in his room and wrote the great songs that came out on his "Cold Spring Harbor" album in 1971. It was his breakout creation."

"He was inspired by this lost love. He was so miserable but he brilliantly distilled his soul into writing those songs. He literally locked himself away. My family, his mother, we were all worried in case he did something silly again so we kept an eye on him. But he never tried to take his life again."

"Billy actually hated sitting down and composing songs. He still does. But if you could force him to do it he was a complete genius."

"After Billy became successful he started changing real fast."

"When he was just starting to see Christie Brinkley I was going out on the town with him and he put on this jarring Sylvester Stallone "I'm Italian" act."

"I guess he thought it was cool to "be Italian". I finally snapped and said to him "Look, you're a Jew from Long Island. You don't have a drop of Italian blood in you."

"He turned to me and said, "I never thought I would get someone as beautiful as Christie Brinkley. This is how I want to live my life."

"I told him, "You will see how bored and depressed this will make you."

"Things were never the same between us after that."

"Prior to Christie he'd never had anyone that beautiful. Billy was not a sex symbol by any stretch of the imagination."

"I guess his music charmed Christie. And he's a very funny guy. In the recording studio he would crack everybody up. But he surrounded himself with an entourage of yes-men. And he believed everything they told him."

"Mazur, 55, is currently writing a book, "The Tongue Man Cometh," with tales of his dealings with The Rolling Stones, Jimmy Buffett and many others. He has a web-site: RubyMazur.com.

He said he's heartbroken over his recent treatment by Joel.

"We go back nearly 40 years. You'd think he'd return one of my calls? I've had numerous art exhibitions and I've invited him. I've called him dozens of times. No reply."

"He doesn't want to know me now. He wants to forget his past. But I do truly wish him happiness."

It's a strange thing for Billy Joel, as he goes out for the sold-out multi-night runs of the "Face 2 Face" tour with Elton John.

"I look at myself in the mirror before I go out and say, 'You're going to go out and do a rock-star thing? You don't look anything like what you're supposed to look like.'"

"I've aged like everybody else my age," he says.

"I'm 52 years-old. My hair has thinned out. And I've thickened out in my body," he says.

"Then I walk out, and the crowd starts screaming, and I think: 'Well, something's going on here.' So I don't question it too much."

In fact, the "Face 2 Face" Tour has become one of the most popular - and long-running - special-event tours in rock. Joel and John are booked Sunday, Tuesday, and Thursday at Sunrise's National Car Rental Center.

When the duo's tour was first organized in 1994, "I wasn't sure how long it would go," Joel says. "The agreement we had was: Let's see how this feels and see how far we want to go; let's see how much we want to work together. And it worked out well."

That's an understatement for a tour that sold-out five nights at Giants Stadium.

"Doing it in stadiums was really absurd," he said. "I mean, stadiums are great for football, but I think what was missing for us was the better sounds of coliseums or arenas - as good as they can sound.

"I mean, I know they're still huge places. Our idea was to eventually try to do it in 'more intimate' settings," he says with a chuckle. "But compared to a stadium, it is more intimate."

The appeal of the tour, in which the two stars sing separately with their own bands for a dozen songs and then join forces for nearly a dozen more, hasn't diminished.

After earning $57.2 million in 31 shows last year - placing fifth among the year's biggest tours, ahead of Madonna - the 2002 tour has had to put on extra shows in each market.

The show has changed through the years, this time including a salute to George Harrison and a trio of new songs from John's latest album, "Songs From the West Coast."

Joel, who hasn't released a pop album in nine years (the last was the #1 "River of Dreams"), alters his set by pulling out more obscure songs from the past.

"Sometimes we'll give the audience a choice," he says. "We pick some obscure songs, and depending on the audience reaction, that's the song we'll do."

"We did this...in Boston. I think one song was "Vienna" from "The Stranger" album; another was "Summer, Highland Falls" from "Turnstiles" and "Don't Ask Me Why" from "Glass Houses." ("Don't Ask Me Why" won.)

"I don't think the show should be all hits," says Joel, who has racked up 33 Top 40 hits, "even though the majority of the audience does want to be familiar with what you're playing. I think if you just play hit, hit, hit, you're not really representing yourself - you're not really representing the body of your work.

"I'm not all just about Top 40 hits," he says. "I think a lot of our reputation goes back years and years and years of having what they called album-cuts. Songs like "Scenes From An Italian Restaurant" and even "New York State of Mind" have not been singles.

"But then again, you can't do too many of them, because then you see people starting to go to the bathroom. So it's a balance."

"New York State of Mind" is taking on a life of its own, becoming like "Just The Way You Are" before it, an accepted standard.

"It seems to have had longevity," Joel says. "At this point, it does resonate, doesn't it? In light of events in New York, it took on a whole other life as well."

Joel sang it, with an FDNY hat on his piano, for the "America: A Tribute To Heroes" telethon and again at "The Concert for New York City," where he also played the obscure, strangely appropriate sci-fi song "Miami 2017 (Seen The Lights Go Out On Broadway)". That song, from his 1976 Turnstiles, has become part of his current live show as well.

"New York State of Mind," from Joel's duet with Tony Bennett on the latter's "Playin' With My Friends: Bennett Sings The Blues" is a recent Grammy nominee.

"That came out of left field," Joel says of the nomination. The five-time Grammy winner appreciates the recognition. "The fact that Tony wanted to do it and a number of other really great singers have wanted to do this song means a lot to me," Joel says. "It's like one of my kids went off and became successful."

His daughter - Alexa Ray, now 16 - is planning her own career as a singer-songwriter.

"I want her to take her time," the proud papa says, "because one of the worst things you can do is come out, be viewed as a pop teen recording artist, and then never be able to be taken seriously again when she got older.

"So I'm trying to hold her back. I'm saying, 'Look, just keep writing. Write, write, write; get a lot of experience in the recording studio and in singing and working with other musicians; and when you get to be college age and get to be in that Alicia Keys phase, that's a good time to come out.'"

Keys, at 21, is perhaps the best example of a contemporary pop-based pianist, songwriter and singer.

"She's really, really young, and she's quite poised for her age," Joel says of Keys. "She's got a great voice, and she's terrific at how she arranges her stuff, too. She's put together a very good band; her sound is good."

But, Joel adds, "I think she has a lot to live up to in terms of how she's been critically received. Her first album is being seen as this masterwork, and it's not there yet. She's got a lot of potential; she's got a ton of talent. But I hope she has an opportunity to grow."

"I was fortunate," he adds sardonically, "in that critics made sure I didn't peak too early."

Of other contemporary acts, Joel says, "I like Train; I think they're good. I like Ben Folds."

Generally, he says "It's hard for me to keep track. I don't follow things like I used to. I'm a kind of dial spinner in the car, and my daughter will point out things she thinks are good. And that gets me to listen.

"A lot of times, I'm listening to someone on the radio, and I have no idea. I say, 'Well, who's this?' And my daughter will say, 'Well, that's Nelly Furtado.' And I say, 'Well, I thought a frittata was an Italian dish.' And she says, 'Oh, no, no, she's really, really big.'

"Then I'll say, 'Who's this?' And she goes, 'That's Pink.'

"I don't know who's what anymore. But there's stuff that I like, and there's stuff I don't like. Just like always."

Last week, 19 million terrified Grammy fans watched in horror as rocker Billy Joel morphed into comic Alan King onstage after being touched by crooner Tony Bennett. Terrible tragedy? Showbiz trickery? Or something more sinister?

After an exhaustive - not to mention exhausting - investigation by The Post, the ugly truth behind the massive cover-up can now be revealed: When touched by Tony Bennett, victims immediately go bald, grow a beard and start doing shtick. This is followed by an uncontrollable urge to join the Friars Club. Secret documents obtained exclusively by The Post reveal that any contact with Bennett and/or the live farm animal he wears on his head can bring about the horrifying change.

Worse, when left untreated, victims can morph into other, even stranger Friars Club members. In fact, Grammy sources claim that U2 frontman Bono mistakenly rubbed Bennett's head and on the spot turned into Milton Berle.

The touring exhibition that is Billy Joel and Elton John came to South Florida on Sunday night for a weeklong stay that looks to be a winner for everyone involved. At the first of three shows at the National Car Rental Center, the middle-aged gentlemen of piano rock played together and separately, drawing on huge hit repertoires and basking in the vocal apprecation of a 20,000-strong sellout crowd.

The "Face 2 Face" tour was not an occasion for reinvention or extension of either man's legacy. Both led their bands and their audiences through galleries of well-loved and comforting songs, played to resemble the album versions as much as staging and acoustics would allow. Sunday's show was a triumph of continuity and reassurance, provided by two people who have survived in the pop trade long enough to have earned their victory laps.

Separate careers notwithstanding, the flashy Londoner and the New York guy proved more alike than different over the course of their sets. Here were two examples of a relatively rare species - the piano-playing rock star - delving into songbooks that vary from schmaltzy to brilliant. Both chose well on Sunday, selecting a mix of hits and crowd pleasers for an audience disposed to enjoy itself, even with tickets topping out at $175.

They opened as a duo, taking bows and sitting down at gleaming, bookended black pianos to share verses on three numbers: "Your Song" and "Don't Let The Sun Go Down On Me" by John, and Joel's "Just The Way You Are." Joel, whose voice has held up better than John's over the decades, sounded slightly more natural stepping into the latter's lines. John's singing on "Just The Way You Are" had a clipped quality, with John biting down on the words. But the easy camraderie on display here, and the utter familiarty of the tunes, overwhelmed any shortcomings in delivery.

John's solo set came first. He and a five-piece band showed the most faith in John's 1970s canon, music from a golden age of rock singer-songwriters. They opened with the "Funeral For A Friend/Love Lies Bleeding," a rock instrumental built on raw melodic propulsion and dynamics. John's piano rose and fell, and guitarist Davey Johnstone stepped into the gaps with power chords and fast runs, the whole creation steamrolling, as it does on the "Goodbye Yellow Brick Road" album, into the rollicking "Funeral For A Friend/Love Lies Bleeding."

The set rolled on through "Someone Saved My Life Tonight," "Philadelphia Freedom," "Rocket Man," and "Take Me To The Pilot." Where John moved out of his most productive decade, he chose carefully: "I Guess That's Why They Call It The Blues" and "I'm Still Standing" - two songs from an otherwise forgettable body of '80s work. But he also offered up two numbers from his acclaimed new album, "Songs From The West Coast." The deeply melodic and heartfelt "I Want Love" and "This Train Don't Stop There Anymore" both sounded like replies to the question John must have been tired of hearing: When are you gonna make another "Goodbye Yellow Brick Road?"

Joel and his six-piece band opened with "Scenes From An Italian Restaurant" and "Allentown," two songs that distinguished him thematically from John, in their fondness for human-scale characters and workaday problems. Where John prefers to sing broadly or in metaphor, Joel wants his up-close New York experience to be felt. But John's and Joel's songs are such rock standards, they tend to lose their differences over time and simply become favorites, an agreeable nostalgiac voice in our heads.

The Captains of rock - "Captain Fantastic" (Elton John) and "Captain Jack" (Billy Joel) - would seem unlikely stagemates, bound only by their choice of piano as a lead instrument and a facility for composing enduring pop hooks.

John, the flamboyant Brit, writes melodies and has been known to perform sentimental songs dressed as Donald Duck; Joel, Bronx-born and punchy, has written lyrics often laced with cynicism. Alone, either one could sell out Sunrise's National Car Rental Center to a populace hungry for the aural equivalent of familiar comfort food in uncertain times. Together, the "Piano Men" have the hottest tour on the road despite a top ticket price of $175. "Ridiculously high prices," an often amusing Joel quipped on stage. "I want my kid to go to Harvard."

Sunday's opening night of the duo's "Face 2 Face" Tour sold-out in minutes as did tonight's show. Some tickets remain for Thursday's concert.

Pushing past 3½ hours, the concert opened with the men at facing pianos singing a couple of their standards, with each taking the first verse of the song the other originated - Joel on John's sweetly naive 1970 hit Y"our Song"; John starting Joel's supportive 1977 Valentine, "Just The Way You Are."

The irony wasn't lost on either of the singers. The two exchanged teasing glances at one another when an old lyric seemed absurd all these years later.

"Don't have much money," Joel sang in John's "Your Song," and he couldn't help but make a face. This tour is as good as a money-printing machine. "I said I loved you and that's forever" from "Just The Way You Are" drew a similar reaction. Before performing the tune Joel teased his stage partner about John's loss at the Grammy Awards earlier in the week: "Speaking of losers, this song was written for an ex-one," Joel said about the song he composed for the first of his ex-wives, Elizabeth, whom he divorced in the early '80s.

Judging by the reception greeting these two pals Sunday, John and Joel could set up shop permanently in South Florida. Both are from a time when looking good was secondary to having the chops to perform. Both men were in fine, if richer, voice and the number of classics between these two Rock and Roll Hall of Famers is staggering. As such, it was impossible to come away from this show and not mourn the omission of your favorite hit.

After the three-song joint introductory set, John and his band -- including longtime guitarist Davey Johnstone and drummer Nigel Olsson - went on first. John favored his '70s tunes, opening with an explosive and dramatic "Funeral For A Friend/Love Lies Bleeding." He touched only briefly in the '80s for the spry and appropriate "I'm Still Standing" and "I Guess That's Why They Call It The Blues" and ignored his '90s output altogether. Two songs from John's excellent current CD, "Songs From The West Coast" - the mature "I Want Love" and "This Train Don't Stop There Anymore" - fit seamlessly in with his classics.

By comparison, Joel's harder rocking set had a whiff of nostalgia surrounding it since he hasn't written a new pop song in nine years. This didn't stop Joel from valiantly ripping through favorites like his set opening "Scenes From An Italian Restaurant." Yet there were some topical moments when he performed oldies like "Miami 2017 (Seen The Lights Go Out On Broadway)" and the ballad, "New York State of Mind," both of which have taken on new relevance post-September 11th, 2001. Longtime drummer Liberty DeVitto was particularly aggressive, pushing the tempo perilously forward and driving Joel like a boxing coach.

Together, for the energetic closing set, the pair were sparking each other like competitive Olympic athletes. Even a surprise appearance from the much younger - and considerably slimmer - Ricky Martin couldn't upstage the "Piano Men" who are now in their 50s. Martin lept atop Joel's piano, did his trademark hip swiveling and sang "Great Balls of Fire." More high-spirited fun was to be had when John and Joel tore through "The Bitch Is Back" and the swaggering "You May Be Right."

John and Joel compliment each other well and obviously have a blast performing together. That zest is translated to the audience. The concert is simply fantastic.

Billy Joel and Elton John, two piano icons with four first names between them, delivered all the good-time nostalgia that a greatest hits tour promises during the first of three South Florida performances.

The lights, the self-deprecating wit and, of course, the songs, were all designed to please Sunday at the National Car Rental Center, where working-stiff seats went for $85 a pop.

Cameras were tightly focused on piano keys that loomed on large video screens. Elton must have given the crowd at least 30 of those "I'm-not-worthy" bows. Billy joked about his bald head and his ex-wives.

These guys weren't on stage to impress themselves with virtuosity or artistic pretention. Billy mocked his career as a composer, playing about 30 seconds worth of his classical album.

If sap is what the crowd wants, they'll get it. Throw in a few rocking sing-along tunes. Hold the cigarette lighters in the air for the thoughtful ballads (That's right. They don't do that any more.)

Remind everyone why the "Glass Houses" album psyched them up so much 20 years ago.

And wouldn't it be a kick to hear Elton sing "Just The Way You Are," the two old piano men on opposite sides of the stage?

For the most part, they've still got it. Elton can't hit all the high falsetto notes anymore. But like any pro, he makes up for it with some stylish syncopation. During "Crocodile Rock," he didn't even bother with the "nah, nah, nah, nah, nah, nah..." part. The crowd filled in.

"Rocket Man" was superb, of course, with a few green lights to suggest a UFO invasion. Elton offered spare vocals and let the back-up band remind you he came into this world as a rock and roll star. And "Levon," with its searching lyrics and pounding piano solos, demonstrated how much cooler Elton was before "Candle In The Wind" gobbled him.

Billy impressed with some of the old rock tunes, too - "Only The Good Die Young" stands out - but seemed to win the day with "New York State of Mind" and other romantic reflections on urban life.

A Brit and an American superstar haven't charmed this well since Tony Blair and Bill Clinton were still hitting the G-7 summit circuit together.

"Touring with Billy is such a gas," said Elton, decked in a black suit with purple embroidery most of the evening. "It's like a party. You guys are going to have a gas."

Before these "Face 2 Face" tours began in 1995, had you ever seen pop piano stars Elton John and Billy Joel in the same room together?

Of course not.

They've got nothing in common but those 88 keys and a nearly equal number of hits between them.

Or could it be that you've never seen them together before because - as we at Team Pop have long suspected - they're the same person?

Call us paranoid, call us suspicious - others have called us worse - but it sure would make sense. All those piano-driven hits in the age of rock? The bevy of songs with eerily similar characters and stories about everyday men in bars playing the piano for a dime, or, um, in Elton's case, rocketing to the moon or being the savior of mankind?

You may ask: How to explain those onstage duets? Simple. Ever heard of smoke and mirrors? Tricky camera angles? Technology, kids. You can do anything these days with a stuffed dummy in a Victorian wig.

We here at Team Pop - however conspiracy-minded we may be - are settling this thing once and for all. The truth is out there. Here are the clues:

Both stars are shorter than average:
Billy Joel: 5 feet 7 inches
Elton John: 5 feet 8 inches

Both are bald:
Billy Joel: Chrome dome, hello!
Elton John: Okay, that's "hair," not hair. And it didn't used to be there. (We've got pictures.)

Both write frequently about men:
Billy Joel: "Piano Man," "An Innocent Man"
Elton John: "Rocket Man"

...and, so tenderly, of women:
Billy Joel: "She's Always A Woman"
Elton John: "The Bitch Is Back"

Nearly identical girls show up in the songs:
Billy Joel: "Uptown Girl"
Elton John: "Island Girl"

Both have had duets with good-looking blondes:
Billy Joel: Christie Brinkley
Elton John: Eminem

Clues around the home:
Billy Joel: East Coast devotee ("New York State of Mind," "Allentown")
Elton John: Worships the West Coast ("Songs From the West Coast," "Rock of the Westies"). "Philadelphia Freedom" shows Elton goes both ways.

Both, inexplicably, gravitate to the word 'honky':
Billy Joel: "Honky Tonk Woman" cover on "2000 Years: The Millennium Concert"
Elton John: "Honky Cat" on "Honky Chateau"

Both are preoccupied with leaving major cultural landmarks:
Billy Joel: "Say Goodbye To Hollywood"
Elton John: "Goodbye Yellow Brick Road"

Both have Italian connections:
Billy Joel: Had a hit with "Scenes From An Italian Restaurant"
Elton John: Was pals with the late fashion designer Gianni Versace

Hoity toity musical stuff:
Billy Joel: Classically trained pianist. Joel cites Chopin and Beethoven as influences. He's even composed an album of solo piano works.
Elton John: Played the "Pinball Wizard" (in the Who's rock opera flick "Tommy"). That's highbrow!

Fixation with Russia, anyone?
Billy Joel: Wrote "Leningrad," recorded that live double album "Kohuept"
Elton John: Scored a hit with "Nikita"

Just listen to them talk:
Billy Joel: Has New York accent
Elton John: Has British accent. But, really, doesn't it sound kind of fake?

The motivation?
Billy Joel: Said he got into rock and roll to "meet girls"
Elton John: Did that song with Kiki Dee

Where to find them. Or, not find them:
Billy Joel: Recorded an album called "Songs In The Attic"
Elton John: Once lived "in the closet"

Weighty stuff:
Billy Joel: Recorded a commercial with Chubby Checker in 1970
Elton John: Says he's self-conscious about being chubby.

Aesthetics aren't everything:
Billy Joel: Recorded "The Nylon Curtain," 1982
Elton John: Probably wouldn't be caught dead with synthetic-blend window treatments

Who wants to have fun?
Billy Joel: Collaborated with Cyndi Lauper, 1985.
Elton John: Dressed like Cyndi Lauper throughout much of the 1970s and early 1980s.

The Disney connection:
Elton John: Recorded a glut of sentimental songs for Disney soundtracks throughout the 1990s.
Billy Joel: These days, with the bald head, beard and paunch, resembles Doc from "Snow White & the Seven Dwarfs."

Tantrums and tiaras:
Billy Joel: Was married to a diva
Elton John: Was honored as a VH-1 "diva," 1999

At a time when the music industry is jittery about its very future, two veteran artists are touring together and selling out shows as if the boom times of the 90's had never ended. Billy Joel and Elton John's "Face 2 Face" tour, which stops in the New York area for nine arena shows beginning at Madison Square Garden on Friday, serves up a staggering array of hits that fans regard as well worth the money even at a top ticket price of $175. The shows, in which the two men perform each other's songs both together and separately, are noteworthy at a time when attention-addled listeners are increasingly focused on specific songs, rather than albums, and find few artists worthy of their continued support.

In many ways, Mr. Joel, who is 52, and Mr. John, who turns 55 this month, are at different points in their careers. Last year, Mr. John released "Songs From the West Coast," a suite written with his longstanding collaborator, the lyricist Bernie Taupin, which has been hailed as reminiscent of their strongest work from the 1970s. Mr. Joel has not released an album of new songs since "River of Dreams" in 1993, and he has no plans to do so any time soon. Instead, he has turned to composing instrumental piano pieces in a Romantic style. Last year he released "Fantasies & Delusions: Music for Solo Piano," which, as performed by the pianist Richard Joo, went to #1 on the classical music charts.

In concert Mr. Joel and Mr. John unleash close to three dozen pop gems: "Don't Let The Sun Go Down On Me," "Scenes From An Italian Restaurant," "Levon," "New York State of Mind," "Rocket Man," "Piano Man." Most extraordinarily, their catalogs, dating back three decades, run so deep that you could construct another set list, equally long - and equally strong - without repeating a single song. They seemed, then, like ideal candidates for a conversation about the art of songwriting - its rewards, its discontents and its current state of health. That conversation took place backstage before one of their shows at the First Union Center here last month.

Anthony DeCurtis: It's easy to see how a young person could get interested in being a performer, but how did you get interested in writing songs?

Elton John: I was in a mediocre band called "Bluesology," playing behind the English blues singer Long John Baldry. At this stage we were doing cabaret, because he'd had a couple of pop hits. The cabaret thing was killing me. Nobody cared. I thought, "What can I do?" I sang a couple of songs with the band, but I didn't really sing. I thought, "Maybe I can write songs." So I answered this advert for Liberty Records. I went there and said, "I like to write songs, but I can't write lyrics." And they said, well, here's a bunch of lyrics by this guy in Lincolnshire, who happened to be Bernie Taupin. And history was made.

DeCurtis: Billy, you've described songwriting as "the loneliest job in the world." Have you thought of collaborating, the way Elton does?

Billy Joel: I tried it, and the only thing worse than doing it by yourself is doing it with somebody else. You can't share the responsibilities. [To Mr. John] I don't think Bernie's there when you're working on his lyrics.

John: No, but he can be in the same building [laughs]. I couldn't have him in the room - it would be too distracting. It's sacred to me, that selfish piece of it, where, you think, "This is my part of the baby." Sometimes, when you've first written a song, and you've got it right, it's the best it will ever sound.

Joel: Yes. It's Promethean. You were there at the birth. And then comes the postpartum depression [laughs].

DeCurtis: What's your sense of the current state of songwriting?

John: All the great songs of the '60s and '50s, you can still sing them now. The lyrics were like poetry, but they weren't overcomplicated. You can't actually think of someone going down the road singing a complete Alanis Morissette lyric - it's impossible.

If you look at the Top 10, say, even 15 years ago, you could probably sing most of those songs. Now you look at it, and you're not going to be singing Ja Rule in five years. Or Jennifer Lopez, or any of it.

Joel: Actually, "song" is almost a misnomer now for what's on the charts.

DeCurtis: Well, hip-hop and sampling have complicated the notion of what songwriting is.

John: But there are only two or three chords, and it's just a riff.

Joel: Alicia Keys - now, she's talented. She's got the voice. She knows how to arrange, sing and play the piano. But I listened to the album, and I said, "I hear potential here, but I'm not getting blown away."

John: The great song she did, "Fallin'," that's "It's A Man's Man's Man's World," the James Brown song. But it's her first album, for heaven's sake. My first album was "Empty Sky," and hers is far better than that.

DeCurtis: So what's the difference between now and when you were starting out?

John: We had a well of great songwriters to draw on. You had Neil Young, Bob Dylan, Leonard Cohen.

Joel: Lennon and McCartney.

John: Jagger and Richards.

Joel: Joni Mitchell.

John: Brian Wilson. Actually, there are three new people that I think write great songs. One is Ryan Adams. Another is Pete Yorn. And the other is John Mayer, whose album is called "Room for Squares." They've gone back to listening to the great writers and been influenced by them.

DeCurtis: Paul Simon once told me that when he heard The Beatles, the Rolling Stones and Bob Dylan, he felt daunted because it seemed as if they were so good, there might not be room for anybody else.

Joel & John: [simultaneously] I saw them as inspirational.

John: Absolutely. On the road, I played with great people. Leon Russell. Derek and the Dominos. Every night I went onstage and said, "Forget it, you're not going to follow me." And every night they followed me and did better. It made my spirits soar.

Joel: It pushed you. We had these people kicking our butts.

DeCurtis: Among the '60s greats, Stevie Wonder seems to be exerting a huge influence right now.

John: India.Arie is an example of that. I think her album is better than Alicia Keys'. It's more personal, and it's got warmth and style. Every musician is influenced by somebody. We all pinch things. Like the first chord of [the Beach Boys'] "God Only Knows" - I pinched it for "Someone Saved My Life Tonight."

DeCurtis: How do you view each other as songwriters?

John: The thing I love about Billy's music is what I loved about the Band and Crosby, Stills and Nash. They could have only come out of America. That gives his songs an identity, which is the hardest thing for an artist to achieve. When Billy first came out, people said, "He's just America's Elton John." I never got that. I always thought he sounded perfectly like himself. And anyway, anybody who plays piano has got my vote.

Joel: I was just going to go there about his writing. It's piano-based, and it's eclectic. Some of his songs, he does in keys that I'm not even familiar with. When I first learned "Your Song" by ear, I played it in D, and there was something missing. Then, when it was time for me to really learn it, he said, "Well, it's in E flat." That's a difficult key if you're not familiar with it.

DeCurtis: Both of you have had songs like "New York State of Mind" or "Candle in the Wind" that have not only had long lives, but that have taken on meanings you never could have imagined for them.

Joel: That's one of the most gratifying feelings...

John: That your song lasts...

Joel: That it's gone beyond its time. That means, after you're gone, that song will still be alive.

John: I've been very lucky. [The movie] "Almost Famous" came out with "Tiny Dancer" and "Mona Lisas and Mad Hatters," and that's made a lot of younger people come to my shows. And, well, "Candle In The Wind" has been a freak. It's been a hit three times. It's proof of what music can do.

I mean, when I was a drug addict and at the depth of my despair, I used to listen to "Don't Give Up" by Peter Gabriel and Kate Bush. That was my life in words and music. That's what songs do to people. When I was at my worst, I still clung to music.

DeCurtis: Billy, do you think you'll write pop songs again?

Joel: I don't know what it will take. I always wanted to be a better lyric writer than I was. I wanted to write surrealistic lyrics like David Bowie or abstract lyrics like Dylan or philosophical lyrics like Leonard Cohen. Lyrics that weren't so bloody literal. It's interesting, because it will be going on 10 years since I've actually written a song.

DeCurtis: Elton, what motivates you to continue to make albums?

John: I'm so competitive. I'm really proud of this last album, but I've had to work three times as hard to promote it, because, as a 54 year-old, I'm not going to get the same amount of airplay I used to. It's a real battle. And I don't think I can do it again. I can't spend the rest of my life doing chat shows. It's ridiculous.

DeCurtis: What's changed about writing songs as you've gotten older?

John: What's gotten harder is you need a hit to sell the album. I think I got waylaid by that in the '80s and '90s. I mean, everything I wrote I thought was genuinely from the heart, but because the industry's changed so much, there's so much pressure, it probably affected my writing. Now I'm willing to say to hell with that, and I think my writing will become not easier but much clearer.

DeCurtis: How about the pressure on you, Billy, from your audience or your record company?

Joel: I think people want me to recreate something that they liked before, say, "Scenes From," you know, "an Asian Restaurant" [laughs] or "Piano Man II." I don't want to do that. I hate repeating myself.

People who just know Billy Joel from Top 40 hit singles may not like me, and I can't say I necessarily blame them. I don't think that really represents the sum and substance of my work. I think